tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post5995935823582066608..comments2023-11-30T06:32:59.453-06:00Comments on Brian Leiter's Nietzsche Blog: Katsafanas on "Nietzsche's Philosophical Psychology"Brian Leiterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08749548844483929392noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-84528787928853129842010-07-30T08:52:25.588-06:002010-07-30T08:52:25.588-06:00I am not claiming that consciousness is in control...I am not claiming that consciousness is in control of actions in a transcendental or <i>causa sui</i> way. Nevertheless, consciousness <i>does</i> influence actions, although consciousness is a helpless instrument (cf. D 109). <br /><br />The point is that, as Katsafanas says in his essay, "choice may control action, but agents do not control choice" (38).<br /><br />At this point, itNarzisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07790559536240659752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-6441788808109847332010-07-30T08:31:44.850-06:002010-07-30T08:31:44.850-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Narzisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07790559536240659752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-34314955385026734872010-07-28T13:34:22.503-06:002010-07-28T13:34:22.503-06:00I’m in near agreement with David here,
Nietzsche ...I’m in near agreement with David here,<br /><br />Nietzsche tends to go back in forth between describing the physiological process determining our consciousness (even if that means admitting we cannot currently know what instincts or drives currently shape our conscious experience…Though N. certainly feels he knows some of the factors…eg. ressentment.) and describing the experiential feeling thatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-38038428745245199742010-07-28T06:25:27.711-06:002010-07-28T06:25:27.711-06:00Narziss,
While the strictly "philosophical&q...Narziss,<br /><br />While the strictly "philosophical" enquiry into the nature and status of consciousness is important to Nietzsche, his principal concern is its nature in regard to what Brian terms "morally significant actions", and, even more importantly I would argue, its relation to Nietzschean conceptions of "health".<br /><br />Regarding GS.360, I agree that davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07891569365376467522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-30293740094692802252010-07-18T13:11:41.958-06:002010-07-18T13:11:41.958-06:00David Mc Callum,
You make an interesting point in...David Mc Callum,<br /><br />You make an interesting point in emphasizing the problem of seeing consciousness as a beneficial instrument versus seeing it as a sign of degeneration. <br /><br />However, when I mentioned that consciousness does the flagwaving of the victor of the unconscious battle, I never said that consciousness is “a sign of victory” as you restated me, but rather, that what Narzisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07790559536240659752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-31037842472445345562010-07-18T08:53:34.733-06:002010-07-18T08:53:34.733-06:00I tried to post some comments yesterday, but they ...I tried to post some comments yesterday, but they seemed to come out in duplicate and some parts were missing. This website had been giving me some errors with the length, though the parts appeared nevertheless. Thus, in order to present the comments coherently, I decided to delete the fragments and duplicates and upload them as a pdf<a href="http://nietzschegrid.org/narziss/documents/Narzisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07790559536240659752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-64150261653198147622010-07-17T15:25:09.357-06:002010-07-17T15:25:09.357-06:00Narziss,
I think your introduction of GS.333 here...Narziss,<br /><br />I think your introduction of GS.333 here obscures rather than illuminates things. You say-<br /><br />"The intellect [i.e. consciousness]is not an autonomous faculty of conciliation, rather, it is the flagbearer of the victor of this unconscious battle, and this victorious flagwaving seems to be the mechanism in which objects in the perceptual field are assigned priority&davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07891569365376467522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-60744263526483520282010-07-16T16:33:25.693-06:002010-07-16T16:33:25.693-06:00Well, reading the paper and all the further discus...Well, reading the paper and all the further discussion, came to me a passage of <i>Daybreak</i> where Nietzsche discuss what he called <i>Alleged conflict of motives</i> <b>(§129)</b>. In this passage, Nietzsche distinguishes between a <i>calculation of consequences</i> of the possible actions and the <i>conflict of motives</i> that happens in the backstage as really determinant in the agency. Oscar Santoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08195862464289263522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-61653760688315203832010-07-14T13:35:28.712-06:002010-07-14T13:35:28.712-06:00Thanks very much to Paul for an excellent set of r...Thanks very much to Paul for an excellent set of replies, that advnace the discussion. I'll post some more thoughts of my own in the next few days. Just a reminder for readers new to the discussion that we talked about Paul's 2005 paper, to which he alludes, in this thread:<br /><br />http://brianleiternietzsche.blogspot.com/2008/05/katsafanas-on-nietzsche-on.htmlBrian Leiterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08749548844483929392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-82751921795093793242010-07-14T11:39:11.470-06:002010-07-14T11:39:11.470-06:00(continued -- comment 3 of 3)
Let me conclude wit...(continued -- comment 3 of 3)<br /><br />Let me conclude with another thought. Brian writes that he would be happy if I meant the following: “the will may cause an action, but the will is not within the causal control of the person (the self), it is, itself, causally determined by something else (e.g., type-facts, something unconscious, etc.).” I would accept a version of this: the agent’s Paul Katsafanashttp://sites.google.com/site/paulkatsafanas/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-6787445329473140292010-07-14T11:39:11.469-06:002010-07-14T11:39:11.469-06:00(continued)
Although this difference might appear...(continued)<br /><br />Although this difference might appear minor, I think it’s crucial. For consider point (2). Brian objects that I think “there is something left over for the "will" or the "self" to do…”. I do, indeed, think that, provided that “will” or “self” just means “conscious thought.” The agent’s conscious thoughts causally influence her drives (and other Paul Katsafanashttp://sites.google.com/site/paulkatsafanas/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-81317161534829859002010-07-14T11:08:48.748-06:002010-07-14T11:08:48.748-06:00First, I want to thank Brian for this extremely pe...First, I want to thank Brian for this extremely perceptive and thought-provoking discussion of my paper. Below, I’ll offer some responses to his critiques.<br /><br />To begin, I should note that there are really two parts to the paper. The bulk of my paper is devoted to explaining what a drive is. The final sections of the paper – the material on page 32 and following – attempts to sketch Paul Katsafanashttp://sites.google.com/site/paulkatsafanas/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4373556239088388790.post-34596842594502216702010-07-13T21:50:21.137-06:002010-07-13T21:50:21.137-06:00While I think that the Will as Secondary Cause rea...While I think that the Will as Secondary Cause reading is a perfectly legitimate reading, like yourself, i'm aware of no serious arguments at all in Nietzsche which suggest he - "does have some conception of genuine agency", as Katsafanas claims; nor , revealingly, is K able to cite any (i.e. Nietzschean arguments, as opposed to figurative language). His final line somewhat implies davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07891569365376467522noreply@blogger.com